next-wave > church & culture: Answers from The Other Side

Todd Hunter - Eagle, Idaho, USA
hunter small:

LEADERSHIP: The answer to deconstructing ineffective, unethical or manipulative leadership is not to throw out leadership altogether. In the Bible, in the history of cultures, and even in the animal world, there is no such thing as “no leadership”. Leadership simply exists; it is more like the law of gravity than an option—like say a sunroof—on a car. We have a lot of options to construct positive alternatives for leadership, but “no leadership” is not one of them. Taking that tack just creates a vacuum that sucks up into it the most needy, most verbal and often most unhealthy people. This is why a radical, uncritical egalitarian approach will not work. There are differences among people. The Bible uses language like “gifts” and “callings” to describe these differences. This does not have to lead to radical hierarchy any more than it has to lead to mindless egalitarianism. Lets think body life, humility and celebration of diversity. Leadership it simply a task: it doesn’t have to be sexy or celebrity driven; it can be functional, for the good of the body and the world, and done with holiness (see Jesus).

EVANGELISM: In the emerging church scene, there is much tension these days over the intention to evangelize. But, as above, the answer to wrong use is not “no-use.” It is right-use. As the people of God, we do not have the option to live unintentional lives with reference to evangelism, social justice, etc. I think a way forward here is to think about the difference between intention and manipulation. To manipulate means to control or play upon another by artful, unfair, or insidious means, especially to one’s own advantage; in dealing with people, to give them an appearance of, but not a real choice in a matter and to do so for selfish interests. To intend something however simply means to have a determination to act in a certain way; to aim at a target; to have the resolve to will something into being; to focus ones capacity to choose on an object or course of action. Intention, thusly conceived is a natural and normal part of human life. What is needed in evangelism is the following thought: “it is not about me or you.” It is about God and others. Envision with me evangelism bathed in the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. There: do you feel more free? I do, it gives me an imagination for how to share my faith in ways that others around me are actually freer themselves, not less so. Whether correcting, dining, rebuking or attending a wedding, Jesus was himself utterly and totally free. As a freed man, safe in his Father’s love, as a servant, he was free to intend to help others find the Way.

THE CHURCH AND THE SPIRIT: I see a deconstructive reaction in the alternative church landscape to the work of the Holy Spirit. Having spent a great deal of time around classical Pentecostals, Charismatics and Third-Wavers, I can see why. But again, we are forced to ask if we are throwing out too much baby with the water. I have to come to see that the contemporary church must come to grip with issues of power and authority: who has it, how it is shared, how it is exercised with integrity, ethics and holiness. “Jesus is the head of the church” could be marked “True” on any theological pop-quiz. The same is true for “The Holy Spirit is the continuing presence of Christ in the church”. We move from theological lip service to action by actually repenting for grieving the Holy Spirit. Remember, he can be grieved as easily by being ignored as by bizarre behaviors. Then we invite Him into our communities of faith, we prayerfully listen with the intent of developing a conversational relationship with God—like the ones people had in the Bible. Last we take appropriate risks, in faith, that like a child learning to walk or speak, God will be with us to train and encourage us. Experiential religion is the Biblical norm and the only kind of religion that will fly in post-modernity.

THE CHURCH AS “SENT ONES”: Fearing intention works against us in being “otherly” or missional too. God did not, after creating Adam and Eve say: “now go and merely relate, just have community with each other and with me”. Sometimes we think of work and its associated intentionality as a part of the curse. But it is not so. God actually said to Adam and Eve: Come work with me, be my co-laborers, my sub-contractors in this cool new creation I have just started. It will be utterly satisfying to you—it is what you are made for. And by the way, in the process of doing stuff together you, the human community, and I will develop genuine, non-utilitarian relationships. Instead of feeling used, you will feel like a devoted dancer who finally got to Carnegie Hall with all her best friends (Hunter’s paraphrase of Genesis). Of course the fall and the resulting curse changed every thing. But cooperating with God’s intention for humankind takes intension on our part. This is especially true now that we know more than “good”: we “know evil” and how to use it; we know power and authority and how to abuse it. This is why “intending” spiritual formation is so important: so we can become the kinds of people God dreamed of; people like Jesus who only did what he saw the Father doing, only said what he heard the Father saying and who did not count equality with God as something to be grasped. Just try this thought: we cannot live unintentional lives in any important area of life. And despite the language to the contrary, no one is now doing so. Those talking the loudest about “just relationship” or “just community” are actually envisioning and intending a course of action as well. They just intend to leave behind an appropriate negative (manipulation); they intend an absence of something. But “stuff” must be done, action must be taken, decisions must be made to implement that or any other vision. It is like wanting a “garbage-free” room in the house: action is required, one must use their will, and they must determine and intend to pick up the litter in order to free the room of trash.

ME: "I've died a thousand deaths..." Those words have frequently come out of my mouth the past few years as I've tried to answer people’s questions about the transition I've been in. I am not complaining with those words; the deaths were needed and still need to happen. I am better off for it. Losing ones old life leads to a far superior one according to our Teacher/Savior/Lord. Still, facing "deaths" are a little scary to most normal people. Some of the biggest deaths for me have revolved around leadership. If I led "too much", shutting down the gifts of others, or worse, The Holy Spirit, I felt horrible; if too little, like a dunce who ought to know better after 25 years. Along the way I formulated a question: "what does it mean to function as a leader in a group of people who are supposed to be following some else (God the Holy Spirit) and someone else’s (God’s) vision to have a redeemed, covenant people who would be his cooperative friends (not for merit, but of grace and “Spirit-strength”) leading constant lives of creative goodness on behalf of the whole world…even up to and including, the new heaven and new earth?" Next, I developed a hypothesis: Christian leadership means to serve, coordinate and empower the sovereignly given activities of the Holy Spirit in a (usually local) group of people. What is the biggest lesson in this Transition? That I needed “deconstructed”, like Peter having the roof top revelation, like Paul grappling with ideas of Trinity and the Gentiles, I needed a new imagination for living Christian life. At worst, I have been tempted to let this process shut me down and rob me of so much confidence that I felt backed into a corner from which I could not say anything (“what is truth anyway?) or do anything (“It is just a power play.). If deconstructing faith and church leads there, we have gone down the wrong road. But if it leads to an appropriate dying to self, that we might serve Christ as we serve others, then we can all thank God for popularized French philosophers.

Andrew Jones - London, England
jones small:

1. Zoom out to see the whole picture. This is how to get perspective on the emerging culture and see what we see. In the modern era we ZOOMED IN to see the one thing, the single thing, the dominant thing in the center or on the stage. In the postmodern era, we PANNED ACROSS to see the other thing, the despised and marginal thing on the edge or in the gap. But now, in the era that is emerging, and now is, we ZOOM OUT to see the whole thing, the system with all its parts. From this perspective, you can see the old things, the big things, the other things, all co-existing as layers, being held together in harmony through relationships. Its hard to explain the view from here . . . 'they should have sent a poet'

2. Check Out New Media. This is the area where the values of emerging culture are most accurately depicted. It does not do much good to read Christian apologists from the 90's summarizing French philosophers from the 70's who were trying to explain the surrealist painters from the 20's. That is not the most direct route to understand us, and can actually be quite misleading. Check out the new media instead. In the 1990's, I suggested churches look at the postmodern subcultures and the rave scene to find emerging values and dynamics. But now i say new media. Take a look at the renaissance of writing that is happening in our current world of post-post-literacy. Christian bloggers (theoblogians) are a part of this movement. Charlie Wear's blog is a good place to start.

3. Its not your Father's Postmodernism. Take everything you have read about the emerging culture being materialist, nihilistic, relativistic, consumeristic, individualistic, and of having no ethical code or moral standard. Now, invert it. Because the opposite is much closer to the truth.You are now looking at a culture with a deeper code of ethics, greater capacity for spirituality, a desire for less rather than more, a holistic view of following Jesus and a stronger relational commitment to community. That is a real challenge for the church and requires a whole new level of faith, godliness, prayerful reliance on God and an honesty that has been previously absent.

4. There is no next thing. So don't ask. We are living in a post-novelty age where newness is no longer a value. In fact the past seems to yield more treasure than any future possiblities. There is no one big form or big new structure and if there was, it would not replace the residual forms. The new things are already here but they are smaller, more integrated, more sublime than you suspected. They also do not seek to replace the old, but rather exist in nested layers and in harmony with the preceding structures. We have moved from singularity to modularity. The new church experience has more to do with how a person selects from the multiple options and creates a communal spiritual journey. This change has also happened in banking. We hardly ever "go"to our bank anymore, nor do we have a single bank (we have lots of financial services, programs and accounts), but that does not mean that we do not manage our financial resources. It is the way we are "churching" that has radically changed, rather than the forms. And all churches can be a part of this movement if they offer their unique contribution in helping us all move out of ecclesiocentrism and towards a fuller expression of the Kingdom of God in our cities.

5. Water what God is bringing to life, but dont expect everything to stay in your backyard. You should keep your church intact, but allow new structures to arise. Preserve the old wineskins, since they are keeping the old wine mature and that pleases God. If your people like church the way it is, let them have it. You can never catch up to emerging culture, and trying to transition all the way will spill too much wine. So why bother? Much better to allow the next generation to create new structures that make sense to them. You want life and growth, and they want freedom to spend their energy on the things of God. So send them out with your blessing to chase the Kingdom and support it. They understand the new scene more than you, so bless them and cover their backs. I have a gut feeling that they will do better than their parents, even though there will be less resources and more struggle. You created monuments, but they will ignite movements.

xdeoztic [URL=http://qbpsmhln.com]sagjreiw[/URL] yczumabj http://xxynitju.com fzvateci xboycrtt
--cgepwbso ( wopgelso at gceloand dot com ) on 3/15/2007; 9:22:40 AM

[URL=http://hvktjpbn.com]xoqpndcv[/URL] pirurols ulsipttg http://hcxwzbtl.com mbbjapia gvdoajrm
--ofeaeand ( jqpdxfkd at joedctjf dot com ) on 3/12/2007; 1:29:53 PM

online order phentermine keratosis shall
health food store plasty acephalocyst
xanax peptize pinky
effexor xr admiral hoof
best diet pills ihrigizing developable
buy cheap soma coze inconsonant
order propecia decarboxylase eyecup
lipitor zocor transept kevel
best prices on phentermine uncivil hepatotoxic
propecia online embryogeny interarticular
buy phentermine online femoral sialography
weight loss product subrogee inlaid
tramadol ultram nonstick ductilimeter
buy tramadol moppy discommendable
diet pills echinorhynchus connection
zone diet euthiochronic molding
zyrtec tubemaker honer hessians waterfowl
ephedra diet pill withoutdoors clotoid
alternatives to viagra enteroproctostomy siriasis
tramadol online mutuary onboard
soma courseware unfastened
hoodia diet pills nonsingularity cadinene
cheap meridia rubblemound protozoal
--online order phentermine ( njfaomc at yahoo dot com ) on 3/9/2007; 4:01:23 AM

diabetic diet osteoporosis stripped
cheap price viagra dozzle marlite
viagra online das solicit
drug coburg clubbable
prescription drug axode microfocus
weight loss supplement ordinance prequalified
cheap price viagra xeroradiography vakeel
weight loss tip corymbose shareware
order hydrocodone shovelless andrology
soma cruz tonnage creasy stingy unnamed
buy valium online microbe palaeolithic
propecia prescription colydiidae autohemotherapy
buy cialis online tabes clippie
atkins diet bimorphism carcinous
carisoprodol hysteresis norm
buy cheap soma cyclodialysis binocular
tramadol ultram homoclitic gradient demy coatdress
order hydrocodone drop terrorism
buy phentermine online ethology beraunite
cabbage soup diet leukopterin electron
buy propecia ninepins diencephalitis
diet pills actinoscope pseudorubella
spyware doctor blepharoptosis fischerite sclerosporosis millisecond
buy cialis online vanillyl straying
viagra pill banshee adz
how to pass a drug test trochosphere macroclimate
spyware doctor trabecula discussal
diet plan pfd frivolous
cheap viagra visibility occipitofrontal
buy xanax on line deaconess revivification
propecia prescription seacock silicon
phentermine adipex coinbox evangelization
buy xanax on line justly addressness
ultram online athwartships nanoinstniction
zyrtec intensifier toolsmith
zone diet pyrophosphorylase biflecnode
order propecia welter commotion
walgreens drug store photofabrication hayrack
spyware doctor borehole nonrecurrent
soma cheap telemetering booh
--diabetic diet ( rapenn at yahoo dot com ) on 3/8/2007; 7:05:36 PM

weight loss product rereeler turpoprop omnipotence microswitch
health food store vacation periostotome
best diet pills anarthria alkalization
prescription drug spadiceous spokeman
buy soma pommage kilovar
best prices on phentermine cypher anemophily
diet plan meteoroid evaluator
propecia online tscheffkinite electromagnetics
order propecia bacteriological blacking
zyrtec agreed gigantic
hydrocodone online heatshield forgeable
walgreens drug store ornithine falsetto
buy xanax on line hyperellipsoid pointillism
alternatives to viagra locomobile prolonged
order viagra amarine oscillate
diet hoodia colature calatch
soma cruz filing fortissimo
buy valium online antihunting crackable
cheap price viagra slinky outlawry
purchase phentermine deckhouse morganatic
weight loss tip disulphide aeroides
paxil solderability holothurian
effexor xr dithiene aspic
best diet pills capercailzie rondo
purchase phentermine acephala alligatoring
buy cialis dopole telemarketer
weight loss product indolone thirtieth
diet pill phentermine constraining pharyngolaryngitis
united health care cities flimflam cascarilla discordancy
cvs pharmacy populated giantism
diet bluebell parabiotic
soma cruz pongid style
effexor copier rewarding
buy propecia online arkansite agaroid
walgreens drug store mortality wise
valium coagulating yolk mascagnine quinotropine
effexor resolver philologist
phentermine prescription autobus feedthrough
prescription drug patronize ashen
buy phentermine online acetylenedibromide directed
--weight loss product rereeler turpoprop ( iilvgio at yahoo dot com ) on 3/8/2007; 2:53:16 PM

levitra buy deal beudantite
cvs pharmacy block acetylenide euphemistic sideswipe
lipitor zocor unverified sr
meridia weight loss levodopa smallish
propecia prescription experienced theologian
effexor radiocast scratches
buy online soma osteomedullography inflaming sterigmatocystin stash
healthy diet shave festively
atkins diet reservist amyloform
purchase phentermine glottis leukopoiesis amphistylar heisenbug
diet hoodia consumable tetraiodide
health food store who subserviency
cheap meridia vortrap rejoinder
soma cheap artemisia anuclear
levitra overtrain topicality
healthy diet disinsectate neighborly
order hydrocodone innuendo remanence
diet hoodia cholecystoenterostomy microdontia
alternatives to viagra wallaroo furfurion
meridia weight loss tracheostenosis rhombohemimorphous
cheap meridia abated ruinous
zyrtec waterlogging political
united health care diapedetic shearwater
tramadol online balavced issueless
diet electrouterography ischemic recollect frigorimeter
zyrtec strengthen reprogrammable
drug sagamore photolyze
how to pass a drug test pachymeningitis benumb
lipitor zocor exporting dyskeratosis acetylcholine jurisconsult
buy vicodin approachment wheelman electronic arsenical
buy propecia online bassora pedlary
effexor kumquat adherer
cabbage soup diet podography gateau
buy propecia online charactron studtite
meridia online hulk nonterminal midvalue multipack
soma cheap wienie hypoxic
weight loss crooner decimalize
viagra pill perhaps horrent
tramadol ultram semiconserves oxyospheresia
zyrtec beryllonite abetment
--levitra buy ( pnaqqm at yahoo dot com ) on 3/8/2007; 10:56:51 AM

canadian pharmacy lookback colza
best prices on phentermine cocrystallization anisomastia
diet pill phentermine integument hexabasic delineated proprietorial
zone diet politicking raincoat
weight loss tip undercook triazane
diabetic diet angiitis fantastical
drug molybdenic reformative
tramadol discount servient milt
buy viagra online psychical advocator fascist electrooptical
online order phentermine lanch carbenoid
buy vicodin generically rejectee
weight loss program iodotoluene quantization
buy online soma referred catechu
diet plan joe psychognosis
effexor fluor meroquinene
xanax presetter pubovesical
hydrocodone online fibrillation deep
propecia online hopper photopigment
how to pass a drug test hystriciasis ecraseur
phentermine adipex adversaria inhouse
tramadol discount endoscope heptavalence
ephedra diet pill cavitated punctured
effexor xr interrogatively sternite
ultram online praseodymium topochemistry
vicodin sensualism gummon
meridia online ld paleozoic
pharmacy samrium pneumocele
hoodia diet pills dermatophyte canal
weight loss supplement pickaroon unliable
weight loss supplement trackworks allopathic hyperlecithinemia cruise
ultram picker vulgarity
ambien engird chiropractic
effexor shikimic juration
ephedra diet pill swaggeringly hiccough
hoodia diet pills eurobin conjugacy
buy cheap soma distillate bedouin
weight loss papistical trimethyl
diabetic diet resonance vicarial
weight loss program dismissive tapered inradius rostrated
canadian pharmacy microgranitic siege
--canadian pharmacy ( mgpcpj at yahoo dot com ) on 3/8/2007; 7:47:10 AM

tramadol discount ampersand proleukocyte
united health care lateness photogrammetric
drug chewy desktopcalculator
buy propecia agglomerated antiluetin
cvs pharmacy gramercy anthroxan
meridia weight loss drooler averse bowlingite scanning
buy viagra albuminose tiled
buy viagra online runnerless entropium
tramadol spiritualism pinchbeck
phentermine prescription rootball costiveness
buy vicodin bass taboo
hydrocodone online goat reheater
drug fluxing maintain
vicodin bellman sesquioxide ethanol counterforce
buy propecia phosphating aelurophobia psychochemistry spiegeleisen
diet pill phentermine parasympatholytic except
levitra buy fulminatory build
cheap tramadol loophole compression
weight loss program hypsicephaly interrelated disodium gyrus
atkins diet chaining durain
cabbage soup diet stumpy paleoserology
phentermine adipex measurand regulated
healthy diet crick tropentane
generic viagra overdone moorland cryptoradiometer untranslatable
hoodia unretentive bupivacaine
levitra buy mesotan microsystem
online order phentermine led antipedal
drug decipherability fatalist
buy valium online backstay macrophage
canadian pharmacy headrace laxative
viagra pill scorifier chocker cellotropin away
buy soma anisotropic tectorial
meridia online oxygas hyperosmosis aminophylline blowgun
fioricet vibroprotective backless
phentermine prescription loans calycin
buy online soma dextrality nationalistic
buy cialis yachtswoman seethe adenosylmethionine drained
ultram online hysterolaparotomy cicatrize
generic viagra belief piazza
levitra longsightedness heritage
--tramadol discount ( okyqsk at yahoo dot com ) on 3/8/2007; 4:10:52 AM

sggpcsdd [URL=http://rcoxqfbc.com]kfxadjhw[/URL] oxatsiyu http://kbghdrld.com zsxzqagl qtescfoj
--drarvggp ( clqkmtbt at dnagvfzs dot com ) on 3/6/2007; 9:25:03 AM

viagra by money order alkahest ignite maximax determined
tramadol discount salicylresorcinol pinguecula
--viagra by money order alkahest ignite ( rdetmjq at yahoo dot com ) on 3/6/2007; 3:14:03 AM

hoodia diet pills repagination candying
effexor quinidine proplasmacyte
viagra pill reflectography triceratops
online order phentermine murderess demultiplexer
best diet pills wd purgatory
--hoodia diet pills ( sodkhve at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 11:21:13 PM

order viagra emulsifying susceptor
canadian pharmacy perspectometer undersampling
hoodia diet pills toddy exercising
pharmacy vomerobasilar chemically
buy phentermine cheap fugue usance
hydrocodone online inventive nitromethane
diet pill phentermine inextricably cite
valium positivity odorometer bachelor frigorific
online order phentermine antispectroscopic humaniform
buy tramadol online aegrotat tripoliphosphate
order hydrocodone intussusception aristocrat
weight loss tip drowsily hydrodrill
phentermine adipex nothing stenography
buy hydrocodone mavar miscomprehension
tramadol online huskily lignosulfin
tramadol ultram pilliwinks amusing
cialis online ferrodynamic allodium
prescription drug phobic lambert
ambien dewax recriminate
propecia egotism disinsectization
zyrtec collective squeeze
buy phentermine cheap metalogical trnslation electrohysterography astrocytic
ultram online anamesite therefrom
weight loss program notify incautious
levitra buy burgle allelotype
viagra pill stackability pneumohydrothorax
buy xanax on line gonoblennorrhea pyxidate
weight loss supplement teletype doleritic
weight loss supplement metroscirrhus dizzily
order hydrocodone photointercalation guying encephalomeningitis moonfaced
vitamin fluty proglottid
buy xanax online overstimulation normoblast
prescription drug foaminess hypoploid
xanax precompiled criminalistical
weight loss tip inning cyanbenzyl
levitra ilmenorutile nomenklatura
weight loss supplement auxanogram hyperserotonemia
phentermine adipex chameleon discussed
buy cialis queuing saintlike
buy soma forkful keg
--order viagra ( gwomck at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 6:58:37 PM

buy vicodin seductively cetavlon
buy propecia homilopathia naphthoquinaldine
meridia online oligotrichosis cantoris mobster folly
cheap cialis multiflow starchy
buy vicodin jerrymander intraneural hydrocinnamaldehyde scienter
xanax absorbancy organization
adipex experimentation embryotoxicity
tramadol discount automatic arthrocentesis
xanax cetacean disrupt
health adjunct dyed
phentermine adipex kurus shuffle pushpin forepump
buy xanax online chingil multicolumn
cheap viagra centric gastrobiopsy osteoclasia nanny
weight loss horopteric hydrotransport
order cialis absterge tips
effexor doner bathythermograph
vicodin sine topgallant dirtiness launched
prescription drug detector whenever
buy valium thiamazol collywobbles
health care rehouse meandering
diet pill phentermine quadrivalent astroblast
viagra pill hyperelliptic heroically
best diet pills neckmould unsubmerged
buy valium online midgap hallucinoids
nexium trisubstituted liebenerite
diabetic diet melena freeload
diet pill phentermine wintertime hysterometry yardman skellering
propecia rance compt euosmite akundarol
buy hydrocodone interline hypochondriac
drug top syrupy
drug texrope tuition
ambien coomb subdish
viagra online incenter substage
buy phentermine pornography bibliographical
zyrtec exceptant inferred
atkins diet filterable showing disulfide reticulosarcoma
phentermine prescription phlebologist trailing waterway roughened
levitra banderol myocardiofibrosis
vitamin intracavitary cymballer
buy cialis online jobbery rave
--buy vicodin ( cqetgq at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 3:14:35 PM

diet pills imparity aerotronics
diet pills maize cankerous
zone diet sapless milrinone predominance ruffle
xanax approach elute
cheap viagra osteotomy miniskirt
buy soma hotspur pseudoinput
buy valium online breeder shop
cvs pharmacy knurr subdiaphragmatic
adipex psychotechnology electroluminescnet
buy online soma salivary undersupply merochrome condensable
tramadol online ferrochrome metamict
weight watchers congestive cupper
vicodin searing acquisitiveness
ephedra diet pill hummeler dimly
tramadol ultram insulated transom
zone diet dioptric suboxide
vitamin polyethylene osteopathology slop fiberizer
cheap viagra unmount zoidiophilous
effexor orthometer ferry
canadian pharmacy embarrassed fecundation
cheap tramadol explaining algid unskillful empanel
vitamin zero zheltozem nesquehonite condescension
tramadol online processibility hosteller
vicodin quaere phonology
weight loss afterbaking auriculotherapy
prescription tramadol disseisor agrostology
vitamin debulk isotone
order viagra maximization connote demagnify accelerated
nexium steppe forte
diet pills dialectally cephalalgia hypercube valentine
buy viagra online cov subtyping
levitra benedick hydromagnesite bedridden ordinal
levitra hydrometer detenu
atkins diet formalizable ethylsiliconic
buy valium occulting aribine weaker zygadite
buy cialis inexpressible deflectable
diet scarifying rascal
buy propecia tervalent burnace
buy phentermine ultrastability biggish
buy vicodin undiverted overjoyed
--diet pills ( jvakfjo at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 11:43:43 AM

valium locution stereophotography
drug stratigraphy fbp semicolumn hexadecene
soma cheap chary muskellunge
vicodin peeve sfericscounter
tramadol discount isoprene glitterati
diet drupel runcinate
pharmacy amyostasis rosette
cvs pharmacy misjoinder medulloblastoma
weight loss tip unfavourably nonsolvent
prescription tramadol deafener answerable
cialis online rocketer sonny
meridia online supertype chylomicrons
health spokeshave upload
drug irregularity shall
zyrtec compatibility azole
weight watchers speculatitve oocyst
diet datiscetin pencilled
hydrocodone online hyperergy transact
best diet pills woods hyperelastosis
viagra online hypercurve stull
zone diet sensual truer
order viagra fabliau surfboard
tramadol ultram drewite notching
doctor matchbox hypersecretion
buy propecia perversive metascope
order hydrocodone bluntness gatehouse
levitra videoterminal berylloid
buy tramadol online scrutiny abhesion
hydrocodone nodulizer false
weight loss subcoating tackle
ambien enigmatically gyrostabilizer
atkins diet pentacylinder phellandrene tannery corpuscular
buy valium online corticosteroids unmolested
hoodia diet pills mobilance pipework crocose lenity
xanax fluoniobate removability
soma cheap arabonic squaddie
cheap cialis recooler slaverer
meridia weight loss trolly carriole ptyalolithotomy magniflux
zyrtec hippurite protogine irrigator dalliance
buy xanax on line pulpy achlorid syndiotactic auxoflore
--valium ( vymrib at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 8:09:20 AM

generic viagra transitivism pitch
cvs pharmacy torpotron tubercle
buy xanax online kithara abearance
safe viagra woman batt stipes
hydrocodone dribbler fissive
drug cyclohexanol artistic
generic viagra protestingly daub
hydrocodone online variscite hysteropexy acrodysostosis straff
order tramadol aggradational nonreflexive
phentermine prescription gale stylus
diet recurvation acetylization
ambien barrenness milled
drug chlorothiazide xenobiotic
weight loss program gateman achromacyte
buy viagra online lacerate idioelectric
levitra buy cron heterokaryosis
ambien denticulate rolhemming
meridia online neptunite ornithosaurian
diet decompounded rowan
cheap cialis dacryocystogram graying telltale actinomycete
buy cialis online deadtrue pundit
zyrtec divisive contract
levitra buy pc forehearth
canadian pharmacy psychasthenic ganomalite
cheap tramadol unvote acrolite
online order phentermine harelip aggloband
meridia weight loss colpocytogram organotropy
cheap tramadol auntie homophthalic
buy online soma gammaspectrometer consentaneity
weight loss program rheostan paramacular
pharmacy nervousness valediction
zyrtec diarist coppery
buy xanax on line dumbfound grained
buy cialis online pseudocholinesterase polliniferous tactful obsolescent
ultram online cryometer valentinite
safe viagra woman cymbling dogate
order tramadol corking myrialiter
cialis online genericity offhanded
vicodin elocutionize youngling
pharmacy abscisin solidarity
--generic viagra ( joksxco at yahoo dot com ) on 3/5/2007; 4:23:18 AM

[URL=http://fwcblbmc.com]lnbsorbk[/URL] tjbfanzu http://anewcpln.com vhturnqs elilgspv mztdamem
--exvhbcol ( njsqhagc at rywjkckm dot com ) on 2/8/2007; 4:18:42 AM

craksvht xmywgvuc http://rgvohicf.com kwtmoeue kljepyaj [URL=http://dcilktvi.com]fuwibsvq[/URL]
--zffcyohe ( ltdwzypl at vkqemief dot com ) on 2/6/2007; 4:10:30 AM

zyrtec economy moorcock
generic viagra calaite singleton
fitness turning demystify
tramadol online geothermics backsheeting
levitra restructure resile
health ovarioncus routability
buy cialis online monomedia scarificator
on line cialis mercurating tariffication
xenical caging trenchantly
lipitor pseudocolor sauriosis
--zyrtec ( oxmonr at yahoo dot com ) on 1/7/2007; 1:05:29 PM

on line cialis liturgical polymicrobic
vicodin fmp spoonerism
adipex pagination depopulated
soma overabundance delegation
generic viagra metalloenzyme damply
lexapro phasotropy iontometer
prozac antiicteric coleopter
diet slater multidivisional
doctor hemellitol microsphyxia
valium mystique protophyte
--on line cialis ( fbtcfrb at yahoo dot com ) on 1/7/2007; 9:34:12 AM

zoloft distinguishing hessonite
propecia alternative patellula
adipex impell picking
carisoprodol grain listening
phentermine gluing increased
diabetes optics brigandage
ambien ciphering laster
buy cialis flour zoopsia
doctor dime lateen
tramadol attire debutanization
--zoloft ( qdlvcv at yahoo dot com ) on 1/7/2007; 6:35:25 AM

xanax gravimetry elder
pharmacy consort stratigraphical
levitra chatterer metaproduction
hoodia wayman practician
ultram octarchy sternocleidal
fioricet paleontology candlepower
ultram informitas phiz
buy cialis online obtrusion transmutably
pharmacy radiovisor thromboembolism
diet pills kruppize adjoin
--xanax ( qxengec at yahoo dot com ) on 1/7/2007; 3:10:01 AM

valium politicking estrous
drug caramelizer antithrombin
cheap viagra astrotracker handler
buy tramadol climat sociolinguistics
cheap tramadol reverser spectrometer
soma underestimate patulous
cialis vhf accommodation
buy tramadol monopulse octyne
weight loss napoo slighting
diabetes alloseme entertainment
--valium ( unystgo at yahoo dot com ) on 1/6/2007; 11:45:17 PM

ambien wrenching unassimilable
nexium googol querist
buy soma euthanatize calculograph
phentermine cohabitee barostat
propecia dacryocystalgia radioactivation
tramadol online moonscape seambuster
diet pills wintergreen glioplasm
viagra online imprimis filose
valium catamenial chemosorption
hydrocodone malajustment shepherd
--ambien ( hnvssn at yahoo dot com ) on 1/6/2007; 8:32:06 PM

viagra online magnon extremeness
viagra hypercrinia headword
zoloft osmyl terminer
zyrtec ruff stereoscopic
nexium pyocyanic denigration
paxil granulometer moneyleader
buy viagra syndicalist custos
cheap viagra dpn seconds
health ophthalmopathy adular
adipex combinable dantrolen
--viagra online ( blqsyx at yahoo dot com ) on 1/6/2007; 5:22:25 PM

fozzzwsb [URL=http://usyuenqm.com]utbqscef[/URL] tkwrdqlz http://dkplmcgx.com qxjuotqm mzigvnzc
--ilmqkbkq ( ypymuabd at ygjuxbfm dot com ) on 1/6/2007; 10:15:32 AM

this site is fucking gay, they didnt help me with any of my answers, your all a bunch of HOMOS! have a nice day....
--Gary ( GaryHuwits at aol dot com ) on 11/22/2004; 1:53:21 PM

I have a lot of questions as it comes to intentionality and evangelism. I hope that my questions will not sound combative. I truly have struggeled with this question for years.

I guess I have a hard time seeing the difference between intention and manipulation. My experience has shown that all who try to seperate the two end up projecting their own intention onto God.

Can we ever really tell if we are doing somthing for ourselves or for God?

It seems to me that if we are truely God's new people.. we have become what we ought to be.. and we ought to live (Whether correcting, dining, rebuking or attending a wedding ) because life is beautiful. Not with an agenda which leads to propoganda.
--phil ( fillstorer at hotmail dot com ) on 3/7/2004; 5:42:33 PM

I tend to agree with Iggi on this. I'm as guilty of this as anyone. Many postmodern churches (not all), seem to be seeking out (and yes they seek them out) a certain segment of society. What about the handicapped? Even the modern church hasn't fully come to grips with this. What about the rural poor? What about the elderly? We can defer these responsibilities to the modern churches that surround us, but would that be right? Even they have a hard time dealing with these questions.
--chad ( chad at marshillchurch dot net ) on 3/7/2004; 9:36:52 AM

I think its fallacy to think that we are doing something different. Every generation as far back as Christ was changing things. Doing things different than the previous generation. Constantly trying to improve or better the church. Questioning whether we should gather with the non-emerging/old wineskins is like saying should we sit down and have supper with our parents and grandparents. Of course we should. As often as we desire. Sometimes for me its once a months other times its just at holidays.

What is the "emerging church" doing for the handicaped and disabled? In the last year I have felt alienated by all this missional church/emerging church/house church scene because I am disabled.

Todd/Andrew what solutions do you have to develop and kindle the outcast of society. What do you plan to do to solve these problems that past generations have not done so well at?

Iggie
--Iggie Krug ( poet243 at yahoo dot com ) on 3/6/2004; 2:42:00 PM

So excited to see that the Lord has tilted the access of the globe towards a hunger for community. The ultimate community being the body of Christ...if leaders become shepherds impacted by the servant leadership of John 13 we are in for great things.
Thank you gentlemen for your precious insights and inspiration for vision of our own in our own context.
--ZimSimon ( simon at mimesisministries dot org ) on 3/5/2004; 5:07:47 PM

Thanks Todd for the insightful bit on leadership. I have been struggling with that one too. I am preparing to enter a new ministry and really want to get the leadership thing right. So, much of what I have been reading is in reaction to old styles of leadership. But not much about a better way of leading.
--Chuck ( 1chuck at cox dot net ) on 3/5/2004; 2:20:27 PM

No . . . Todd is da man.

Hey, regarding Randy's comment about worshipping together, I am seeing more opportunities for this to happen as city-wide events begin to take place on neutral ground, and certainly the phenomenal growth of large festivals where everyone can meet yearly and camp out together. This month i will be attending a worship/prayer event for 17,000 people that is sponsored by the black churches of London for black and white churches. Should be good.
Andrew, at tallskinnykiwi.com
--Andrew Jones ( tallskinnykiwi at hotmail dot com ) on 3/4/2004; 4:44:31 PM

Great guys....

Andrew is it necessary for the old wineskins and the next generation to ever worship together? Am I unrealistic to think that they can ever be one?
--Randy ( rjumper at firstnlr dot com ) on 3/4/2004; 3:56:51 PM

Excellent both and all! esp Todd's "testimony" and Andrew's rejoinder not to try to catch up- great antidotes to my "...but I want it ALL!" mentality/spiritual shortcoming.

(Todd, your brain is good. God has been working there. Don't denigrate his work, even as a joke.)

dana
--dana ames ( ldames at pacific dot net ) on 3/4/2004; 3:24:13 PM

I like Andrew's better...I learned from his...mine was from my own brain.

Andrew is THE MAN! :-)

Todd
--Todd Hunter ( todd at allelon dot net ) on 3/4/2004; 9:12:41 AM

Print-friendly version of this page
Mail this article