Beth Maynard, co-editor with Raewynne J. Whiteley of the book Get Up Off Your Knees, recently spoke with Rudy Carrasco about the band U2, her new book and the effect both have had on her life.

Why did you choose to do this book?
I was one of three U2 fans, who were also preachers, who had been dreaming about the concept for awhile (one of the three, Raewynne Whiteley, became the co-editor with me).  Anybody who tries to help people engage with the Bible is always looking for meaningful life-connections, and all three of us had the experience of U2 lyrics coming to mind over and over when we were in search of good contemporary reference points for proclaiming the Gospel.

As we were talking about all this, we said to ourselves that we couldn't be the only theologically-trained people who have U2 songs pop into their minds all the time.  U2 have been producing art for over 25 years, and they've dealt with so many major spiritual themes that their work is a natural for culturally-aware preachers to draw on.  So part of it, I think, was that we were just curious to see what was out there, what was getting preached that used U2 material, and the book was a good excuse.  And we were pretty sure there would be a fairly big audience who would enjoy reading Christian reflections on U2 songs as much as we would.

But another piece was that we also wanted to help widen the vision within our own tribe.  We both serve in a mainline context, where the DNA sort of encourages wearing blinders about God being active in pop culture.  We wanted to help some of the leaders we hang out with notice how fruitful U2's material is.  Very spiritually rich things are happening at U2 concerts and within the community of people who are engaged with their stuff, and I think the church can learn from that.  That's one reason there's an adult study curriculum in the back of the book, so that even if you come into it not knowing much about U2, you still have a way to get your feet wet in exploring the themes in their work personally.

Did the publisher have any reservations about publishing the book?
Well, they were really aware that this was way out of the box for them.  Cowley is a respected publisher in a narrow arena which you might call, I don't know, "thoughtful liturgical spirituality"; you really don't think of them doing popular culture. But the vision behind Cowley Publications came from some monks in the Boston area who wanted, originally, to provide an arena for new Christian voices to get published -- so they could kind of see how this book might be part of that same vision, a few decades down the line.  It has been a stretch, no question -- there's a constant sort of "collision of worlds" thing going on.  But to me, those collisions are part of moving on in faith, and hopefully they spur growth on both sides.

Was it difficult to get submissions from the writers? The only thing that was difficult about it was getting them to submit their sermons by the date we needed them submitted by.  And in fact, it didn't happen; we kept extending the deadline.  I was looking through my advance copy recently and laughing at how many sermons were preached weeks after what was supposed to be the absolute last possible day to send them in.

What was most unexpected about the writers' submissions?
One thing that really interested me was how the messages seemed to be clumped around particular eras in U2's history.  I expected a lot of All That You Can't Leave Behind, which we got.  "Kite," "Grace," "Walk On," "Beautiful Day" -- you can instantly see the Biblical themes there, and they've all been on people's minds within the past few years. I also expected a somewhat thin representation of sermons using material from U2's work before Live Aid, which was accurate as well.  But I didn't expect so little from the ZooTV era, which (especially if you include video) seems to me to be just crammed with theologically provocative work. Even though Pop is heavy on religious references, since it wasn't as big a seller I didn't expect quite as much Pop as came in (if you count shorter quotes, more than half that album is represented).  And I definitely didn't expect as much Rattle and Hum as came in. Only two Rattle and Hum sermons made it into the book, though ("God Part 2" and "When Love Comes to Town.")

I think I finally figured out what that was about.  Since several of the writers are near each other in age, born in the 1960s, we were sort of at the perfect life stage to be spiritually impacted by U2 in their late 80's incarnation, and then during Pop and All That You Can't Leave Behind we were finally getting to step into the pulpits.

Also, this wasn't a surprise exactly, but it was great to see how differently people could approach the same song.  We wanted the book to be as spiritually diverse as possible within the Christian community, and so we have, for example, an American Roman Catholic sermon on "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" next to one by an evangelical Protestant from Northern Ireland, and the two are just totally different in every way.  I think that's pretty cool, because U2 have been about breaking those kinds of barriers down since the beginning.

Did you at any time actually communicate with one of the four U2 band members?
There's always a big interest in U2 as people, since they're massive celebrities, and I know a lot of Christians are curious about their personal beliefs, but we were focused in a different direction.  We actually wanted to make a real point of not claiming to know what they believed, not preaching About them as people, not giving an impression of having any kind of "definitive" interpretation (as if there could be such a thing.)  We especially wanted to avoid the kind of Bono-hero-worship that sometimes comes up; there are four people in the band, after all.

So we were really focusing on their work, their art, and on interacting with that as part of leading Christian communities into conversation with some piece of Biblical truth - which means that the question of seeking out any of the individuals in U2 personally was just sort of bracketed completely for this project.  The London office of Bono's Africa charity DATA, and the New York office of their company Principle Management, did recommend TASO, the Ugandan AIDS charity who are getting all the royalties, though.

What's the first U2 concert you ever attended?  What's your favorite concert attended (which tour, location, etc.)?
I actually tell the story of my first U2 show in a sermon in the book.  It was at the old Boston Garden in 1987, and I will never forget how it felt for thousands of people to spill out onto Causeway Street in the dark, still chanting in unison, "How long, to sing this song?"   Plus the band did "One Tree Hill," which is so powerful and, though, I didn't know it then, got played pretty rarely.

 If I had to pick a favorite concert, it would probably be the most recent one I was at, the eve of All Saints Day in Providence RI in 2001.  I live a half-hour away, so I saw them both nights in Providence, and it was just a really, really spiritually significant juncture for me.  That's partly because as someone whose calling revolves around structuring worship experiences, I found it one of the most effective worship experiences I'd ever been through.  And I admired how they were able to create this space where the presence of God was just thick in the room, but where somebody who wasn't spiritually inclined would never have felt like "this isn't for you, you're not part of the in-crowd."  Plus, it was Larry Mullen's birthday and the place was a madhouse.

How have you grown spiritually as a result of this book?
As someone who works within the institutional church, I think the more I listen to people who have experienced the Spirit in places like U2 concerts, the more I keep noticing what barriers organized religion puts in front of people who want to find God -- and grieving for that and wanting to find another way.  I see the whole spiritual landscape a little clearer now than I used to, and have gotten better at understanding people who are completely off the church's map.

There are also two pretty deep sermons on the Psalms of lament (one using "40," one using "Wake Up Dead Man") which talk about sharing our whole emotional lives with God in the context of our covenant relationship with him.  They've been part of my starting to perceive new things in the Psalms and pray them more honestly.

Have you gained any new biblical content or theological understandings as a result of working on this book?
I learned a lot from Raewynne.  She has a PhD from Princeton in homiletics, and watching her make editorial suggestions taught me some things about how sermons are best put together in different contexts.  Her essay in the book is about the connection between pop culture and preaching; before I read it and discussed it with her I didn't even know the word "intertextuality," but now that concept is really useful to me as a model for how Biblical content and other life "texts" interact. Another essay that I got a lot out of is Eugene Peterson's introduction, which is all about metaphor and prophecy; he suggests that U2 have essentially a prophetic call.

Since we have everything from long-term seminary professors to congregational clergy to lay writers to students in the book, just watching the different assumptions they brought about how to handle a Bible text was another education.

What's something you cut out of the text that you hated to cut?
That's a great question.  We had to shorten some of the song quotations, and there was a sermon on "Gone" that worked through the whole thing line by line and had to be restructured.  I'll bet it looks fine if you're coming to it fresh, but I was really sorry to see some pieces of that go.  We also got unsolicited material that was more along the lines of personal testimonies than sermons.  Very moving stuff, and it would have been nice to include it, but there was really no way to fit it in.

What interesting speaking gigs, or new relationships, have come to you as a result of the book?
Well, four of us have a whole list of things we could come speak on up on the webpage, but since the book only came out very recently and is still getting distributed, our speaking gigs are all on the level of nibbles so far.  I did do one in a pub in Boston last fall where we looked at some of U2's favorite religious themes, like social justice and idolatry/addiction, and watched videos and discussed them.  And Dylan Breuer, who wrote six prose-poems that introduce the chapters, is part of a group putting together a big worship service designed around U2 songs in Maryland in February.

Relationships have been an unexpected bonus, and I'm glad I heard Joe Myers talk at Soularize Boston about the different spaces of belonging, because his model helped me take some of the non-traditional ones that have arisen from this project more seriously.  In the U2 world, I think especially of the folks from @U2 -- Matt McGee from there wrote a blurb for the book and I've enjoyed getting to know him a little, as well as Angela Pancella who maintains their archive of U2 Bible references.  In addition, some of the contributors, especially ones who are more committed fans, have kept emailing me and been  lots of fun to talk with.

I didn't start up the U2 Sermons blog until about halfway through the process, but gradually there's been a whole blog network that has formed almost by itself.  A lot of that is emerging church type bloggers like Bob Carlton (several of us did an Advent grid blog, for example.) Some of them I knew (or knew of) from before, but many I didn't.  And I've also gotten a few contacts from fans who were cautiously looking for Jesus and guessed that someone who was ordained and also loved U2 might be safe to talk to; those are probably my favorite book-related emails to open.

Overall, this whole thing was really a labor of love, and continues to be.  As writers and artists U2 are models for faith engaging culture, and getting to spend several months focusing on their work has been a privilege.

Brought up an atheist in Bible Belt Tennessee, Beth Maynard is now the pastor of the Church of the Good Shepherd in Fairhaven MA. Apart from Get Up Off Your Knees, her publications include two other books, a number of sermons, and articles on topics like postmodernity and faith and culture. She is a contributor to "Drawing their Fish in the Sand," @U2's archive of U2 Scripture references, and also keeps the U2 Sermons blog. She lives with her husband as close to the ocean as possible and does not own a Palm Pilot.