I once heard a visiting pastor say, "A woman preaching is like a dog walking on its hind legs - they can do it but it just aint natural."  Thankfully that was a very long time ago.  Many years, and many mindsets have long since gone - at least in my world!

On our pastoral team, we have 4 female pastors, as well as 6 male pastors.  So, if you asked me what it was like to be a woman in ministry, I would have to say that it's a lot like being a man in ministry - sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's not fair but most times it's incredibly fulfilling.

I'm 29 and I live in a generation where the question, "What is it like to be a woman in ministry?" is fast disappearing.  For myself, and a good many other females I know, the "woman" issue is just simply not an issue.  I live in the amazing liberty that the previous generation of godly men and women have created for me.  I am able to walk in the call of God on my life unhindered by my gender.  

We tend to ask questions more like "How do we guard our heart and keep from being cynical?", "How do we best communicate to a post-church culture?" and "How do we fit everything into our busy life?"

It saddens me to think that there are women in situations where this is not the case but today I want to bring them 'tidings of great joy'!  I am from Australia, and in my sphere at least, there are churches who are passionate about communicating Jesus, and release both men and women to do that.  

There are women who are in ministry and thriving. Women who are supported by their local and regional churches; women who, like everybody else, have lifestyle issues to work through; women who love what they do and consider it a privilege and women who actively encourage other called women to consider pastoral and church ministry.
I am in full-time ministry and loving it.  My husband is totally supportive.  My church is totally supportive.  My Senior Pastor is totally supportive.

Does that mean that ministry is a bed of roses and that every day is filled with encouragement, laughs and dancing?

Well, no.  But that isn't because I'm a woman.  It's because I'm a human.  I'm a child of God, and there is an enemy of my soul, and bad days happen to us all. 

So what have I found helps me when ministry can be discouraging (which it can be some days, no matter what gender you are)!?

We must never compare ourselves with any other person.  We each have a unique role to play.  Our spheres of influence are different.  Our giftings are different.  Our temperaments are different.  God has a unique role for us that we need to learn to live out day by day.  We can learn principles from the lives of others, but very rarely do we see a 'how to manual' for our own situation.  That's why the Holy Spirit is our counselor.

We must never confuse prominence with significance.  We can sometimes feel like we are being over-looked or under-appreciated.  In fact, we can focus on that and miss the opportunities God has for us right in front of us.  Sometimes He is graciously allowing us to make our mistakes where few people see them.  Sometimes He is letting us die to that human need for recognition.  Sometimes He is teaching us things we will need.  But mostly, He is probably working on our character.  Our times are in His hands and He is the One who lifts us up and brings us down. 

We had a lady in our church who passed away several years ago.  Her name was Margaret.  She never had a very prominent role, but she was exceedingly significant.  Her funeral was a testament of that.  She had impacted countless hundreds of lives in our town, as well as her previous ministry in another church overseas.  Her one-on-one ministry reached through generations and her influence continues today, even after her death.

We may never speak to thousands, or we may.  Our name may never be known to tens of thousands of people, or it may.  It's not important either way. The important thing is to be significant in the lives of people you do minister to.

Perhaps most importantly, ministry is not about people - ministry is people.  If we model ourselves on Jesus, we become less concerned about our opportunities and more concerned about empowering, releasing and serving others.  You never know what destiny God has written on a person's life.  If we can learn to encourage that in others, and cheer each other on, we will look back one day and stand in awe of what God has done in and through each one of us.

Having said all that, my heart goes out to women who are in the difficult position of being in a church that doesn't release them to function in their call.  Those women have much prayer and some difficult decisions ahead of them to wrestle with.  However, they can take heart that there are many, many opportunities for them in the church worldwide.  I sincerely hope they will find their way to a church that empowers them.

Every so often I sit back and think about how great my life is.  Why?  Not because I am a woman in ministry but because, like my friends, both male and female, I am endeavoring to live out God's purposes for my life, whatever they are and wherever they take me.  And believe me - where they take you can blow you away!

So what's my take on women in ministry?  It's pretty much my take on life itself - are you ready for the great adventure?  Here I am God - use me!

if there era female pastors who will like to preach the gospel with out discriminating of sex can contact me with the above Email address.dchosen2004@yahoo.com.because there are ministries in africa who needs you most because they are hungry for the word of God or call 234-803-4009787
--rev.kelechi nwagboso ( Emaildchosen2004 at yahoo dot com ) on 11/1/2005; 2:32:01 PM

Over the years most infact 90¨f women in ministy are appointed because they are willing to play party political to the particular church culture they find themselves in.
So excuse me for yawning about all the debate, but its time the sleeping prophets of both genders got ready to wake up!
--daisy ( daisy at hotmail ) on 9/17/2005; 9:30:57 AM

Last time I checked Thomas wasn't in the Bible.
-- ( mtstealth69 at hotmail dot com ) on 7/23/2005; 6:32:37 AM

Over the past few weeks, I have been on a spiritual journey where I think I have really discovered the stone that the builders rejected. (Luke 20:17) I have been reading my Bible and even searching other religious texts and as I was searching I continually came across parables and food for thought that have really taken me and guided me to understanding things I never saw before. So I thought I may as well write to you to let you know how my search has lead me to understand what it means to be a Father.

I have always been frustrated with the way the so called religious community has never really communicated the truth of what Jesus said. I have been frustrated because I see the religions around the world deeply involved in the day to day operations of the world with nothing really changing for the better. We belong to a society where we are not really sure where it is going; it is called progress but progress to where?

Based on my spiritual research, I have found some personal answers to the parables imparted to the Disciples which have transformed my life and have brought me to some fundamentally sound spiritual conclusions that I now live by that work!

I am an Ojibway man named Dale Booth. I have discovered that the key to everything is maintaining balance and equality through EVERY aspect of our lives. It was the way I discovered it that was amazing to me. My quest begins as wanting to become the best possible Father to my children: Erika, Dasan and Brenna and Husband to my beautiful wife Karen Dolan. These people are the most beautiful in the world to me and I love them so much. Here is what I have discovered.

The only place that I have really seen the Holy Spirit in its full grace is when I see Karen with our Children. When they were babies it was very pronounced; the sight of the perfect trust from the child to the perfect love from the Mother. This relationship is a perfect one and that is why we are encouraged to be born again. It is a circular-balanced relationship that is perfect. I began to see that relationship as what I call “MotherLove”. MotherLove is the Holy Spirit here on earth; the Holy Spirit is God and God is Love. MotherLove is the Holy Spirit working through all Women here on this planet. MotherLove is a real thing that we RELY on for our survival. Mother Love is essential for ALL of our survival both individually and collectively. I am lucky to be able to recognize these beautiful things and many have said to Karen that I am I touch with my feminine side. I never knew or valued how much that meant nor did I realize how much that side of me would reveal the Truth.

So, I am reading and meditating on many scriptures but one really stood out to me as the challenge. As I was researching other Texts that had parables and sayings of Jesus I discovered one that challenged me. I was stuck on the Gospel of Thomas :37 - which says : His disciples said, “When will you appear to us, and when will you see you?” Jesus said, “When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample them, then you will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid.”
This verse was the one that I thought I would never be able to uphold. I honestly thought that I could only do this if I were to sell everything and our family was to live destitute. This of course panicked Karen. So I thought and meditated and prayed over this verse to find the answer. I could not understand how would it be good for our children to live in abject poverty in order to glorify God?

Then it came to me: I realized that I could accomplish what the verse above said if I transferred all of the title to all my possessions and everything I owned to my wife Karen and give it to the MotherLove that dwells in her as hers. I could stand as a poor man and not be ashamed because I was entrusting my life to the Mother Love in Karen. I now work and toil for that special MotherLove in her - This is really something special to work for day in and day out! It is tangible and real based on Trust and Love. It made total sense. I took off the sunglasses of patriarchy and looked at it through the binoculars of equality. As soon as I went upstairs and told her what I realized I told her that I loved her more than all others and gave her everything. I began to feel “the Father” physically dwell in me. It was the Father, because I was compelled to be exactly what our Father in heaven wants me to be - A Father who Provides, Protects and Teaches his Children in the ways of the Word. (Not the World)

I believe that Women are supposed to be the owners of the property and resources of the earth because they have the Holy Spirit in them - The MotherLove. And MotherLove can be trusted to do the right thing with the property and resources because it exists as a result of the Holy Spirit. Now I tell people that I am a propertyless and penniless man, poor and proud of it. (Matthew 6:20) I have placed my faith in my relationship with my family and Karen that I will be taken care of....and I am! Karen has placed her faith in me to Provide, Teach and Protect our family. We have been able to re-create the equal circle balance in our relationship making it every aspect of it an equal one. At this point I was on a mission!

So as I am reading John 1:13-25 I began to see what I think Jesus was trying to impart to us. He went into the Temple and kicked all of the moneychangers and merchants out. And he said stop making the Father’s House a place of merchandise, then he went onto say that he would destroy the house and build it up in three days. Now I have prayed on this and I truly believe that the House/Temple he refers to is our person, our body, the body of a man like me! We are the house of the Father when we accept him into us. When we ask that the Father dwells within us he needs to dwell in a house and that house is our body. When he resides in us we are to honour him and I believe he was demonstrating that WE as men should think differently about what we do. Meaning maybe we are not the ones who were to be the property owners! Maybe he wants us to concentrate on those things that make us a better Provider, Protector and Teacher. Jesus then said he would destroy the temple and build it up in three days. Well I believe that was Jesus referring to his gift to us on Calvary using his own body. I honesty believe that he was trying to show us that men need to honour God in their house (their person) and we honour him by the women owning the property and resources and making the decisions that best reflect the needs of the family. I believe that if a Man pours his efforts as Provider, Teacher and Protector into the vassle of MotherLove and that Married couple is in the Holy Spirit then the have really found the Holy Grail.

When I read Luke 8:1-3, it seems that this is the only place where it mentions the financial support of Jesus and the disciples it appears that support came from Women. And Mark 15:40, Matthew 27:55 and John 19:25 seem to corroborate this. A Woman was the first to announce the resurrection. John 20: 1, 11-18

I mentioned that I was Ojibway and it is important because our society prior to European contact dispersed property through matrilineal lines and that is why I believe the Jesus never appeared to them at that time - He didn’t need to - They were already honouring the Holy Spirit by the equal way we dealt with property and resources. He appeared where and when he did because there was the base from which patriarchy flourished causing an inherent imbalance in Creation. “Property and resources managed and passed on matrilineally was the Stone the Builders of this society rejected” Our Ojibway teachings have told us of the Seventh Fire:

The Seventh Prophet that came to the people long ago was said to be different from the other prophets. He was young and had a strange light in his eyes. He said, " In the time of the Seventh Fire, New People will emerge. They will retrace their steps to find what was left by the trail. Their steps will take them to the ELDERS who they will ask to guide them on their journey. But many of the ELDERS will have fallen asleep. They will awaken to this new time with nothing to offer. Some of the ELDERS will be silent out of fear. Some of the ELDERS will be silent because no one will ask anything of them. The New People will have to be careful in how they approach the ELDERS. The task of the New People will not be easy. If the New People will remain strong in their Quest, the Water Drum of the Midewiwin Lodge will again sound its voice. There will be a Rebirth of the Anishinabe Nation and a rekindling of old flames. The Sacred Fire will again be lit.

We as Ojibway people used the matrilineal form of property descent in the times when we lived freely. We now need to go back to that! I believe we all need to go to that! It is time to build New Families with New people who will re-create a balanced circle in the family. We need to teach our children that importance of the caring love that is in our Mothers. I believe that in the Ojibway Prophecies this is the “retraced steps” that they refer to but we have been blinded by patriarchy and unable to see the right path. Now when I read the Bible and the Prophecies from this perspective, I am able to understand everything much better and the sayings that were once secret to me jump right off the page!

Now is the time where we, as Anishinabe people, need Jesus more than ever to guide us back to the place where we were heathy! Through him I have found that way! By understanding it in this way the only way that we can return to a healthy and productive lifestyle is if we come to Jesus and he will point us in the right direction. We have lost our direction as a people and we now need help to get back to the place where we embraced a equal and balanced relationship with the Mother’s of our society. It was at that point when our people flourished.

Inequality causes poverty - social and spiritual. We must get our roles right this time. If we do Jesus said he would come back. I want to let as many people know as possible about this so that they to can fell what it is like to live in a family that is overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

In verse 48 of Thomas and supported by Matthew 18:19 and Mark 11:23 also it says “If we can make peace with each other in a single house , we can move mountains” and it’s true! It needs to start some place - I can say that we are a New family and will live like one. As a Man I haven’t surrendered any of my Man-Hood; I am simply doing what I can ,along with Karen, to ensure balance and Equality in our family. It is trying at times because we are constantly tempted back to the way it was before. But through the grace of the Father, we will be able to stay the course and I know will be able to help other families do what I truly believe God intended. I want to be part of a generation of New Families that are based on equality and love of the Saviour!!!

As we are Born Again through our Saviour Jesus Christ we also need to make ourselves born again in our relationships with each other; especially with our spouses. As the child I saw that gave me the inspiration for what I write to you today; we too need to go back there as Men and put our trust in the Holy Spirit that exists in our Wives and they need to rely on the Holy Spirit that resides in us as Teacher, Provider and Protector. Through this our relationships can be born again and we can achieve an equality between two people never before seen!

I just wanted to say “Thank you” for your work as it has lead me to a place where I think I can make some real positive change for my family and those families who want to become New! The Church you have built is one where people can really flourish as Holy Spirit filled people!

I would really love to discuss this with you if I could. Thank you for encouraging me to work towards being a great father of a great family!!! Your Good to Great message is being heard loud and clear. In order for Karen and I to do great things we needed to get our own house in order first and make it a place where the Holy Spirit lives.
pe your comment here
--Dale Booth ( tribehockey at sympatico dot ca ) on 12/9/2004; 12:23:12 PM

good day, my people all i am a man of your type so i will like to have your contact for sharing a words together
--christopher ( chris_bito79 at yahoo dot co dot uk ) on 9/13/2004; 11:53:54 AM

good day, my people all i am a man of your type so i will like to have your contact for sharing a words together
--christopher ( chris_bito79 at yahoo dot co dot uk ) on 9/13/2004; 11:53:12 AM

Hi to all who have made comments and it's been really interesting to follow the conversation.

For the guys who struggle with the idea of women in ministry and were brave enough to leave comments, God bless you - seriously. I really hope your life is totally blessed and full of great joy.

To those who were a little concerned at my article being a 'response' - I hear you. I just want you to know that this article was not a response to Rachelle's piece in particular. It can't be, because I don't know Rachelle (although I would love to have coffee with her some day) and in 1000 words I cannot hope to understand the intricacies of her situation.

This article was more a response to the way I felt Rachelle's article was presented in The Next Wave. It was presented as a field report of 'women in ministry', when perhaps it should have been presented as a field report of 'a woman in ministry'. I hope you see the distinction.

I had t osubmit this article as I want the next (or emerging) generation of young women to know that there is a future for them. I honestly hope that by sharing my experiences, I can help provide some hope for young women.

As I said, it saddens me that there are still parts of the Body of Christ for whom our created gender is an issue in fulfilling our call. So I desperately want people, young women particularly, to know that those circumstances are not the whole story.

Thanks for the great discussion all.
--ruth ( ruth at northside dot org dot au ) on 4/26/2004; 8:25:25 AM

I appreciate your thoughtful reply Hannah, though I must respectfully disagree. Given the examples you cite (1 - 2 Timothy and Titus) and the then existing cultural milieu, I might be inclined to agree with your conclusion. In fact, it certainly is the interpretation en vogue today. However, I believe the Bible includes a clear, consisent pattern of male leadership. I will make a feeble attempt to establish my position.

In Genesis 1, God created man and woman in his image. There clearly is no difference stated or implied as to equality or value. Certainly we agree on that. In Genesis 2, we learn that man was created first and given his purpose, his responsibility, before Eve's creation. God told Adam that he was responsible for cultivation of the garden and for spiritual leadership... he alone was told to leave alone the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. I assume we are in agreement at this point as well. Therefore, it was Adam's responsibility to make sure Eve knew, and abided by, the law God had given. He was tasked with leading Eve with God's word. This is a difficult item to overlook. This is free of cultural implications, as there was no culture yet. Are we still in agreement?

This pattern of male spiritual leadership then continues throughout the Old and into the New Testament. Jesus chose 12 men to follow and learn...the first Leadership Training Program. He chose Paul to help establish the early churches. Though women were clearly involved, the pattern which emerges is clearly one of male leadership.

The Galations passage you cite, taken in context of the scripture and not the culture, is speaking to the equality we all share as members of Christ's body. In no way does it undermine or remove the core roles we were given at creation. Just as a corporation can not exist or functon with 10 CEO's, neither can a church or a marriage function with no clear lines of authority.

Sadly, we are only having this discussion today for two reasons:
1) Men have willingly given up their role as leader and embraced passivity, creating a vacuum which women are certainly capable of filling
2) Those men who do attempt to lead have done such a poor job of leading that we have created resentment, fear and lack of trust on the part of women.

When men can return to the precepts of loving our wives as Crist loved the church when we are willing to reject passivity and lead courageously, and when we start accepting responsiblity for fulfilling our God-ordained roles, we will see a new church emerge. The church as it ought to be.
--Marty ( taylorcalm at earthlink dot net ) on 4/22/2004; 11:38:14 AM

Thought you may be interested in this series of articles. The original article is by a Professor at Indiana Wesleyan University. The subsequent Articles are written by various people. Please enjoy

http://www.indwes.edu/tuesday/
--none ( none at none ) on 4/22/2004; 11:13:07 AM

Wow. . .lots of stuff here. I am the Worship Arts Director at The Salvation Army Center for Worship and Service in Merced, CA, and although I am not "ordained" per se, I was at one time. I gave that up because I am very committed to lay ministry, and I want to model lay ministry to our people.

In Paul's writings, he addresses the gender of "headship" issue very clearly, as has been pointed out. But headship and leadership are completely different. Each of the letters he wrote addressing this issue was written to a particular church with or pastor of a church with a particular problem to be dealt with. In the pastoral epistles (1-2 Timothy, Titus), both Timothy and Titus were dealing with women who had at one point been pagan prostitutes, as were the women in Corinth. In the pagan temples, the women would cry out and exhibit very "charismatic" behavior to create confusion and a state of mass hypnosis during worship. They would dress in a way that would promote sexual promiscuity. It is because of that that Paul said, "I am not presently letting a woman teach". It was not a blanket statement. As recent converts, these women were instructed to keep their questions and comments to themselves and bring them up at home privately, so that everything could be done "decently and in order".

When reading and interpreting Scripture, it is important that we remember that it was not written TO us, but FOR us. We must take into consideration cultural context and individual needs. Lydia led the church in Philippi, and Paul had no quarrel with her. Jesus Himself treated women as equals.

In the body of Christ, all is restored to pre-sin status. There is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free. Yes, we women are helpers, paracletos, just as the Holy Spirit is our helper. But does that mean men are greater? No. I know women who are gifted to pastor and men who botch up the same job. Men and women, when living and ministering in the power of the Holy Spirit, are equals. "Male and female" was created for companionship, not job division.

In the Western Territory of the U.S., The Salvation Army's denominational leader (Territorial Commander) is a woman. Commissioner Linda Bond is a beautiful woman of God, an astute student and teacher of the Word, a dynamic evangelist and a responsible steward of the resources God has entrusted us with. She pastors the ministers under her (in the multiple hundreds) personally and connects with thousands of lay people. No one can tell me that she is in any way usurping a man's authority or position. . .it is God who ordains, not man. In fact, I could tell you horror stories of a previous leader we had in her current position who did more damage than good, because he had an agenda and no one was going to tell him otherwise.

God's Word gives us eternal principles of holy living that must communicate his love to a lost world. For those men who say that women cannot preach or teach, get them off the mission field and throw away their make-up, too. Men and women were created to work in equal partnership, together representing the awesomeness of the Godhead.
--Hannah ( hviolette at yahoo dot com ) on 4/21/2004; 12:03:01 PM

I must say I am chagrined at the lack of opposing discussion on this issue. Using a reference to someone else's book, anyone else's book, on the topic of women in ministry certainly should not be construed as equal to the guidelines laid out in The Book.

It seems clear to me that God created men and women differently, with different responsibilities and different roles. The question is not whether or not women are qualified...they most certainly are, and in many cases, more qualified than men, but the question is being obedient to the roles we have been given. Men (not a gender-neutral term) are called to be the head, while women are called to be helpers...a term only used in other contexts referring to God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

That we can so cavalierly disregard this bedrock concept because we are now "enlightened" by current cultural standards is a testament as to why the church is now where it is. As long as women are intent on usurping the mantle of headship and men are content to abdicate same, we will continue to have sin in the camp...and should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Our families are disintegrating. Our culture is disintegrating. The answer is not to commit the same mistakes "they" have made...the answer is to show them something truly revolutionary and counter-cultural. Show them an unwillingess to re-fashion our gospel around current social mores, and and show a willingness to obey God's laws.
--Marty ( taylorcalm at earthlink dot net ) on 4/20/2004; 11:25:01 PM

I so agree with Ruth, women are needed in the leadership of the body of Christ. The question is not whether they should be there or not, it is rather how we, the blokes, should facilitate an atmosphere where they will be able to fully express the gifts God gave them.

For those wondering about the gender specific issues of the Bible, there are two excellent resources that I know of: one is called "Why Not Women" by Loren Cunningham and David Hamilton. Next, there is an impressive study by one of those guys called "I Commend To You Our Sister" that you can get directly from David Hamilton.
--JC Cailleau ( belgi-boy at hotmail dot com ) on 4/15/2004; 1:51:22 PM

Opps. Wrong email address on that comment. Here's the real one.
--Phyllis Mathis ( phylmathis at hotmail dot com ) on 4/13/2004; 1:41:13 PM

I hope that this "response" is not the end of the discussion on this topic. I am disturbed that this particular story is offered in this particular way (in response to Rachelle's lament).

Ruth is truly a fortunate woman. Thank God there are places like hers in the church. However, I'm not sure how this helps anyone struggling with the situations that most women face.

In fact, although i have no doubt the article was meant to cause hope, all it did for me was minimize the dilemma of hundreds of others who are not so fortunate. Almost as if to say, "hey what's your problem? It's working fine here. Maybe you're just comparing yourself to others, obsessed with recognition, not competent to minister, or not people oriented. Maybe that's your problem."

If you're going to offer a success story, please offer one where we get to see the process, the struggle, the issues involved.

An article like this tends to shut people up and make them feel crazy for being angry, disappointed, or frustrated. Like, "the problem isn't really the problem, maybe the problem is YOU."

Let's focus on the problem - the church suffers from a lack of feminine voice and leadership. And then the solution - how to encourage, raise up, listen to, and release that voice into our communities of faith in a way that honors God and feeds the world.
--Phyllis Mathis ( pmathis at hotmail dot com ) on 4/13/2004; 1:36:39 PM

Obviously I'm going to be in the minority when I say this, but: From what the Bible teaches, women aren't supposed to hold positions as pastors. Ric pointed out that the verses dealing with shepherds are gender specific. See Titus 1:6. I know someone out there has scripture they would like to share dealing with this topic. I'd like to hear from anyone who is willing to share.

thanks.
--David Siglin ( dsigl019 at bju dot edu ) on 4/12/2004; 7:10:21 PM

Hi Ric, a couple of good places to start are by asking movements or denominations that allow women to minister for their statement or the like, or getting your hands on a few good books and checking them out. here's a link to check out http://www.ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/4191_women_ministry.cfm
--ruth ( ruth at northside dot org dot au ) on 4/11/2004; 7:44:13 AM

I have been watching and listening to this topic for some time now. My question is how do you explain away that the qualifications for leaders in the bible were gender specific(ie men) I am not opposed to women teaching or preaching there are some great ones out there that I have learned alot from.
--Rick ( grapevineplayers at yahoo dot com ) on 4/10/2004; 11:14:54 AM

I think its a fantastic article. As a young male who's grown up in the church, i have seen the change over the years and can say I am extremely happy that things are changing.
I don' think there is enough positive exposure these days. People are so quick to tell us negatives, I'm happy to hear Ruth is doing a great job. GO Girl...
--Peter ( sentimental_garbage at hotmail dot com ) on 4/10/2004; 7:40:35 AM

Great piece to chew on. Thanks for the thought provocation.

Now from the perspective of a "denominational" woman pastor, it is still a major struggle for women. I wonder how many of my sisters in the non-denominational world are senior pastors in multiple staff chruches? As a Lutheran, we have very few. Our calls are usually to small dieing churches in out of the way places. We have 7 Bishops out of 65 in the nation, and we are the only branch of U.S. Lutheranism that even ordains women.

I just returned from 3 weeks in beautiful New Zealand. There the whole Lutheran presence does not ordain or welcome women pastors. I believe that may be true for Austrailia, also.

Here in sunny Calif. job postings for pastors at the SantaCruz Bible Church and Graceland ministries appeared on their web page, but for men ONLY.

We have along way to go before our ministry is fully and equitably integrated into the life of most congregations.

I love being a pastor, and am challenged by the notion of sharing Jesus with 20-somethings in whatever way they best hear it. I believe it is our love of Christ, and our passion for his body-- the church that communicates. People are humgry for intregity and authenticity in all forms of our ministry.

Anne
--Ane Tracy Carlson ( anne-jim at att dot net ) on 4/9/2004; 6:29:06 PM

Jen

that is sooo true.. women do seem naturally more flexible in style, more willing to learn, and more ready to engage in dialogue. Hmm.. those are big advantages in the emerging church...
--Leonard Hjalmarson ( lenhjal at telus dot net ) on 4/9/2004; 1:08:20 PM

len, i understand where you are coming from--lectures and old preaching models make me tired, too. but this is the very line of thinking that unknowingly makes some of us crazy.

while it's true that some women adopt the preaching styles and approaches of the men who paved the way for them (and that are now losing credibility), others are reinventing the form completely in ways that are refreshing and engaging to the most secular listener. when i encounter old friends that are excited to report they've decided (maybe for the first time) that they're taking their spiritual journeys to church, they almost always report excitedly that they have a woman pastor "and she's soooo good!" women pastors tend to invite their listeners to talk back and a special dialogue can ensue--something most evangelicals from more conservative settings could not fathom.

the idea of women being effective and engaging *in a postmodern way* from a pastoral space, including the pulpit, may be hard for some recovering evangelical men to fathom (you know, the guys who would squirm to sit "under" a woman's teaching and find it uncomfortable) but this very well be one of the "new" forms of church we're looking for--deeply spiritual, creative, engaging women reviving and transforming traditional dying structures with new ways to reveal and understand the gospel in the context of a dialogical community.

this may be one of those cases where secular people consider what we consider to be old and dying structures entirely innovative and new when women lead. for this reason, men who are finding themselves less and less effective in the old forms would do well to lend all their support and resources as we make a new way.
--jen lemen ( takoma dot mama at verizon dot net ) on 4/9/2004; 8:10:43 AM

Good thoughts, and I'm with you in that I am long past that old question and dead paradigm of gender bounded ministry.

But I am also past the paradigm of "preaching." What does that mean in the rising church culture? Can we get past lectures to dialogue? Can we get past answers to questions? Can we move beyond information to life and formation? Personally, I think the sermon needs to be left behind for newer forms. And in those new forms the issue of who has authority to share the truth may be a dead question in the context of the gathered community.
--Leonard Hjalmarson ( lenhjal at telus dot net ) on 4/8/2004; 3:56:27 PM

i don't know. something about this piece troubles me. while i'm really glad that things are going so well for ruth, it seems odd to offer her story as a "response" to rachelle's when the context for ministry is so entirely different.

here in the us, unlike australia, evidentally, sexism in the church is alive and well. women who are gifted in leading and engaging a group struggle to find not only their place but the mentoring and encouragement they need to live out the fullest expressions of their giftedness. along the way, too many women suffer from the threat of gatekeeping, sexual harrassment or more subtle forms of misogyny. we are not making this up--it happens constantly. by god's grace, women learn how to offer their treasures of insight and wisdom, but it is often underground and off the radar of those opposed to more egalitarian forms of leadership. those who care about truth and justice long for a better way.

in terms of a "response" to rachelle's piece, i'd love to hear a story or two about how men and women together tackled the problems rachelle described and found a path of ministry that exemplifies mutual respect and partnership. ruth's experience, while hopeful and valuable in its own right, tells me nothing about how we can respond constructively to the serious realities that women like rachelle face everyday.
--jen lemen ( takoma dot mama at verizon dot net ) on 4/8/2004; 3:54:49 PM

Outstanding perspective and attitude. You are an inspiration and obviously called to minister. Your points are universally true for all of us. God bless you immensely in your call.
--Geoff Bynum ( geoff at thevineyardchurch dot cc ) on 4/8/2004; 2:14:07 PM

Thanks for the good and thoughful words.
--Bruce Reyes-Chow ( brucerc at missionbaycc dot org ) on 4/8/2004; 12:13:55 PM

Thank you for that article. As a woman in ministry, it's always a good thing to here from sistas out in the fields doing what God is calling them to do.
--Theologix ( theo_logix at yahoo dot com ) on 4/7/2004; 10:27:09 PM