Tell me about what you're doing with Water's Edge?
I think it's pretty simple.  We are trying to create a missional community. We're hoping to create a community that understands what it means to be missional & missionary within the context of everyday life.

We focus much of our conversations and teaching on kingdom stuff.  We hope people really start, or continue, to grasp the current reality of the kingdom of God in their daily lives.  We are hoping that we no longer settle for "getting our butts into heaven," and we increasingly become "apprentices of Jesus."

If you have been reading the same stuff as us, you know we are using Brian McLaren, Todd Hunter, and Dallas Willard kind of language.  It's really the kind of community that we are starting to see emerge.  And while we have many frustrations, we also are excited to see God's hands at work in our lives.

Quite awhile ago it occurred to me that "community" is a loaded term.  We all talk about it, and... what does it mean?  I'm far from a brain surgeon, but it would seem to me that community is really about friendships, genuine friendships.  So, we are starting to talk about friendship instead of community.  It makes a lot more sense, and we seem to have a better understanding of friendships than community.

Everyone has been burned by bad friendships, and we all hold a few good friendships near to our heart.  I'm not sure we can identify good "community." We can usually identify bad community, but we need a way to recognize if we are moving in the right direction.  I think we can gauge "success" if we are growing friendships.  This could mean either growing deeper friendships or growing new friendships.  Thus far we have focused more of our energy on the first; I hope the second also becomes more important as we increasingly understand missional community.

So, why did you decide to start this missional community?
I dare to say there are several reasons why Water's Edge began.  The main reason - it's simply a God thing.  We gathered some Christian friends together, and we said that we wanted to pray about the possibility of starting a new church.  Over the next six months we increasingly understood that our hearts were being moved in this direction.

There are a couple of significant reasons why we sensed that we should explore the possibility.  I was a youth pastor; a lot of good things were happening within the youth group, but we realized that numbers and programs were at least as important to the leadership as helping teenagers understand God in greater ways. I'm not really blaming anyone; it's just the way that many churches seem to be wired.

In addition, I was sick of watching seemingly committed Christian kids walk out the church doors after graduating from high school.  My bigger frustration was that we didn't seem to want to ask the hard questions like, "Why the heck are they disengaging?!"  Or at least, we didn't really want to hear the answers.  I wanted to really ask the hard questions, and I want to hear the real answers.  I really do.

You couldn't do this within an established church's structure?
Good question.  I think, if we were given the right structure with people who were really flexible, it would be possible.  We aren't doing something so unique... we are doing missional community that is quite different from most churches in our community though.

We are not really about numbers.  We hope to continue to gain new faces, and see increased commitment by the regulars. But, if you want to see big numerical growth, go elsewhere.  I think most churches want to see successful programs.  I was a youth pastor in the midst of a number of adults who lived and breathed love into the souls of kids. So, we were successful, and it was good.  Now people hear that we have 35 (on a big day) at one of our gatherings, and they wonder, "What the is he doing?"  Most churches wouldn't like this mentality much.

I'm beyond writing monthly reports; I'm not going to run my family into the ground to impress Jesus.  He doesn't need it.  My son needs me to hold him more than two nights a week.  I'm not going to play political games with staff members.  I want honest friendships with those who bring leadership to this group of people. 

Finally, and maybe this is the best reason to be apart from another church's structure:  I'm was born, raised, and indoctrinated as a Calvinist.  My partner in this project comes from an Armenian background.  So, our theology should be miles apart, but the truth be told - we are so close on most everything that we could be theological brothers.  Sure, we have differences, but so does everyone who works together.  We are simply learning that leadership always focuses on Christ rather than me and my agenda.

Let's talk a little more about leadership.
We don't do founding pastor, senior pastor, associate pastor stuff.  Who is in charge here?  If it's about servant leadership, then that stuff doesn't need to be asked or answered.  If we are really about pursuing the Father's heart, then we need to really grasp servant leadership.  I don't think enough churches are led with that kind of mentality.  We can talk about being servant leaders, but I think most of us have fragile egos, and we don't want to take second place or play second chair.  So, we would rather talk about giftedness and the need for leaders, and it gives us language to move our voice up to the front.  It just seems odd that Jesus never talked in those terms.

Earlier you spoke of gauging "success." How do you gauge what is effective?
We are learning that church isn't about the big event.  It's about building friends who you want to hang out with, share life with, and with whom you will experience the emotions and adventures of life. I think we are being effective because people keep telling us that it is intimidating.  We do demand a lot.  We expect people to engage in new friendships.  The problem - if you commit to new friendships then you are going to mess with your own life. Too many of us love our lives just as they are, or at least we like most of what we know as our lives; so we don't want to really mess with the rhythms of our life.

Here are a few brief examples:  Awhile ago, two of our twenty-somethings got married.  Joel McClure, my partner in this effort, did the wedding.  My wife and I were the master and mistress of ceremonies.  My daughter, Anna, was the flower girl.  Joel's wife was one of the two voices in two featured duets during the ceremony, and the entire Water's Edge community was invited to the reception.  It was good, very good.

There are several people within the group who were high school students within our previous youth ministry.  They were good kids, but they were just normal kind of kids.  There wasn't really anything "super-Christian" about them.  Well, they are sold out to this project we call Water's Edge. Better yet, they are really understanding what it means to be apprentices of Jesus.  My soul sings when I can see them grasping the reality of the kingdom of God.  So many of us grew up with this kind of language, but I'm not sure we grasped what it meant.  They are grasping it, and they are living it.  At the same time, they have parents who can't legitimize the idea of a house church; so they continue to get family pressure to come back to "the flock."  So, while they are feeling family pressure to be in a "big church," they deeply sense God's presence in their lives.

I'll tell you one other story.  It's simple, but its' good.  I'm 37, but many of my good friends are between 20 and 30 years of age. Anna, my daughter, interacts with them and talks about them as if they were aunts and uncles.  Yea, this is what church is supposed to be.  It's about water skiing together, enjoying the summer sun together, and inviting a few God-skeptical friends along too

What has been the most challenging aspect of this for you?
This has not been a particularly hard thing for us.  My wife is a chemical engineer; so we don't have the financial pressure.  We don't have huge goals for success; so we don't have a huge fear of failure.  The hardest thing though is that most people who are devout Christ followers just don't understand what we are doing.  It seems that once we get a "building" then we will be legitimate to most people.  That's disappointing because if church is about the building, then we have missed the point of being God's people.

Honestly, I think most theologies regardless of faith tradition, have missed the point on this one.  Our need to support the operating budget, including the salaries, has become a driving force in terms of how we have defined "church."  Now, I wouldn't say that salaries or budgets are bad.  Nor is it inherently bad to be a salaried employee of the church, but these things have defined how we understand church, and for the most part, it has hindered the kingdom more than it has helped.

But for the most part this has been a positive journey?
There is nobody telling me how to be a legalistically good Christian or youth pastor.  I don't need to measure up to tightly held definitions of success.  Recently we worshipped with another emerging faith community. We gathered for a barbeque and worship time.  Weather didn't cooperate, and we ended up worshipping in a horse barn.  That was good - really good.  I think many people would have thought that a dirty horse barn was disgusting, but nobody was complaining.  That was freeing.  One couple needed to leave because she is allergic to cats, and there were cats and little kittens everywhere.  I wont' get a letter of complaint or a nasty call from them.  It just won't happen.  So, that's good, and it seems like the way Christ followers should interact with one another.

My wife, Kathy, she is sold out.  Honestly, she believes in this project even more than I do.  We have been married for thirteen years, and while she has always been a ministry partner, she is a majorly significant piece of Water's Edge.

Is everyone always on the same page with this endeavor? No. While we have a group of people who really believe in what we are doing, everyone has different expectations, different hopes, different dreams.  That's probably been the hardest part of this thing.  Sometimes we really think everyone is on the same page, and then a couple of people seem to be reading an entirely different book.  It's at those moments when I ask myself, "What am I doing?"  Thankfully, those moments seem to be occurring less often as we move forward.  Hopefully that's God's way of encouraging me to move forward.

Find out more about Water's Edge at their site: WatersEdge.tv

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--ehsmvpht ( aamcuwsq at hwscardg dot com ) on 1/21/2007; 11:31:14 AM

Yes, it's becoming a more common journey, always encouraging to hear the stories of others.

I have a feeling that it would be tough to do this with those who have been churched for too long..

Actually getting started has taken us almost two years, because we needed a core of people to go with us... we had to wait until others were ready. I think Gordon Cosby somewhere refered to this as "critical mass..." and then BOOOOM :)

In some ways it is now easier than if we had a building, because we are building around people and their real needs and caring for each other.
--Leonard Hjalmarson ( lenhjal at telus dot net ) on 6/3/2004; 5:16:56 PM

I am really enlighted with your definition of communities. Our church have a similar vision, to build communities of believers. But let me be honest with my thoughts, that if this is just the focus, don't we loose balance? We say, "we should grow bigger and smaller." This means that we do not neglect public evangelization (exemplified by Christ in his ministry) and nurture new believers within the community...
--Tricia Rufin ( tricianasia at yahoo dot com ) on 5/17/2004; 4:27:08 AM

The more I read about these types of communities the more I like it. We were in the process of planting a campus church this past spring in a new community when the wheels fell off at the mother church. We have purchased a home in the area and have begun to develop relationships with the people. I love the idea and the concept, I just need to see it work. I know that God is in this, and that what you are doing is His will.
Rusty
--Rusty ( rakers at arizonagrain dot com ) on 5/12/2004; 6:24:34 PM

Good stuff Randy. I am reading Spirit of the Disciplines by Willard and was wondering how you might be taking the 'language' and moving it forward practically speaking with your friends? I personally have a desire to do this - live in a more spiritually disciplined way - and sense the need with others in the church I am with. I cannot help but think that regardless of age, after coming to faith, our churches leave everyone there as if they have all they need. The life seems to end and perhaps that is why our churches are losing the youth (or young in faith). Some 'discipline' might help.

Lastly, how do you keep a sense of togetherness without a "building". Seems like the church in Acts had this - Solomon's Colonnade - and I am wondering if there is something there, even if a loose association with a venue that helps facilitate our friends gathering. In particular with the age group you are working with (in fact with all people), a need for a physical home or hangout is imbedded in our DNA. Thanks and peace be with you.
--Mike ( mkurtyka at jump-in dot org ) on 5/11/2004; 12:44:54 AM

Reading this article was like looking in the mirror. It is encouraging to know there are other brothers and sisters that God has given a similar vision. Thanks for sharing what God is doing through you at Water's Edge. God bless you and your wife as you continue to seek Him.
--Jamie ( jlankford at slcc4ministry dot edu ) on 5/10/2004; 3:09:27 PM

Really good stuff, Randy. We met a few years back at Soularize in Minneapolis, and I've always meant to check in with you. Keep up the good servant leadership, and committment not to run your family into the ground for "the sake of the kingdom".
--Craig ( pelkeyland at enter dot net ) on 5/6/2004; 8:28:53 AM